407 2.7 HDi v6 DPF issues

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CJR1983

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Tadpole
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Hi
I know there is quite so material online and including this site about the DPF problems.
I am none the wiser unfortunately, except that it does affirm I have a DPF issue as it appears common around 120,000 - 160,000 km.
It short: the Engine light on the dashboard comes on (every time basically) and the message DPF regeneration problem comes up as well. The car then losses 60% of power/acceleration. Some times I turn will off the car and restart (and do again and again) until the problem disappears then I will driving but it will probably reappear when driving soon after.
Very rough starting as well; I am currently taking out the diesel injectors for cleaning (the front 3 were very dirty with carbon buildup; back 3 I will start to take out today)
Please help.
- Anyone know a mechanic who will remove dpf?
- If not, do I replace it or just clean it, or just refill DPF fluid.
 
How is the car usually driven? Open road running (eg a motorway) periodically is essential to regenerate the filter. It usually happens without you knowing.

If the pressure sensing system is faulty you won't get regen messages. Somewhere around 160,000 km the catalyst will need topping up. There is a message. It then needs resetting by a Diagbox computer.

The filter if not too far gone can be force regenerated by the Diagbox system. Specialist Pug/Citroen mechanics can do this. It is a rather nasty business with the engine at speed and red hot filth coming out of the tail pipe, best done outside. There are some places listed in the forum, or a Victorian may drop by with a recommendation.
 
The car was running perfect about 1-2 years ago.
Then this started happening 'rarely': once a month.
Now it is every day.
The car was/is normally driven at highway around Geelong and surrounding areas; not 'in city' ... ie. it is driven correctly for a diesel and to regenerate the DPF.
- I have been using the FAPlite Citroen/Peugeot app to view and clear various error codes. I would like to now get the Diagbox program or computer however.
- Can you provide a link to where I can buy the Diagbox - somewhat cheaply. Happy with 'quality' cheaper chinese versions.
- Is this the catalyst top up you are talking about; this is a very good video:
- Before topping up the Catalyst/Additive is it best to clean the DPF or is this not needed.

Regards
 
The tank is in front of the rear kerb side wheel. You can buy fluid from EAI in Melbourne, but you must supply the VIN for the right brew. Unfortunately the computer doesn't measure the tank, it only counts squirts, so you need to reset the computer count.

Diagbox is a favourite subject here. The home page has a duckduckgo search box.

It fell off a truck somewhere (dealers have to rent it) so never let it go online. You will also need an OBD to USB converter, which often comes with the software. It is 32 bit Windows software, and today it is being run in virtual machines. It is a pig to set up, so check out all the help.
 
Do you know if I can, and then how, if I even should, remove this metal 'bar/brace/support' so I can easily access the back 3 injectors.
Photo coming
 
Here it is in PDF
 

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I'll leave that to our 2.7 HDI experts.

Back to the filter, are there any OBD codes available? The filter has pressure sensors as regen is triggered by the difference across the filter as well as by suitable driving conditions. Out of normal values can produce error codes.
 
Yes. Attached are the last two that I took a photo of from my phone.
These are from the FAPlite Citroen/Peugeot app.

But in general:
- It would need a few attempts to start the car; even with a new battery; and that battery just charged with a new battery charger that I bought. When it starts; it is common for a thick black cloud to come out the exhaust.
- Then once the engine is warm and running, if the engine light is on and a DPF regen error message comes up with the middle console where the audio is; I would turn off the car. Then clear the codes with my FAPlite app; then start the car again. As it is now warm as it has been running, it would start straight away.
- Now, 40% of the time I would then be able to drive without the engine light and DPF regen error message coming back on;
- 60% of the time, I would drive and at some point during the drive, the engine ligth and DPF regen error message would come back on and then I would lose 70% of accelaration. It would not go into 'full limp mode' but I would lose most accelaration.
 
error codes:
 

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- I am not sure if the car starting issues are DPF related or not. That is the big question for me. The big black cloud of smoke when it eventually started did indicate to me that it was DPF related, somehow.
- I should also say that the Injector error codes are very new. About 2 weeks. These were never there.
- Instead it was common the DFP pressure difference codes to be present, like you said.
- Once up and running, the car, like I said, 40% of the time would be great as long as the DPF regen message didn't 'come back'. I come drive it for hours without any problems. But the next morning, the same problems would then occur. Problems starting the car - turning over the engine - and a big black cloud coming out the exhaust.
-
 
I have no idea why all injectors should be open circuit on their command line. It might be spurious, to be looked at after the major problem is fixed. The same goes for the odd U1218 (BSI emitting unusual values) or the CAN fail P1693.

P1351 comes free with every HDI and can be ignored.

The critical ones are all related P0470, 0473, 1447. As the French put it in the manual, your FAP est colmaté. You must fix the particle filter blockage.
 
Yes; I agree with everything you just said.
How do I fix the particle filter blockage. And the P0470, 0473, 1447 codes.
Your suggestion.
Do I just top up the addative; or do I have to remove and clean the DPF or replace it.

Regards
 
You have to first find one of the Vic Peugeot or Citroen mechanics who can forcibly regenerate the system. Both makes use the same computer. If it isn't too far gone, then you will be good to go. The pressure codes can be cleared when the filter is clean.

You could try removing the filter, opening it up and high pressure washing it. It can work. This is often done for heavy lorries and a suitable truck servicing place may be in Geelong.

The additive can be got from EAI, but you don't have an error code for it yet.
 
- So I don't need the additive until a specific error code comes up saying that the additive level is low?
- I just need to forcibly regenerat the system?
- This is starting to make sense.

Regards
 
If you need catalyst, at about 160,000 Km, there will be a message on the display. It also returns a code.

The FAP (filter) is your number 1 problem. You can't run well with almost no exhaust. The filter is made of porous ceramic, and there is no other opening through it. The codes are computed from the pressure sensor readings, which have now moved out of normal range.

The catalyst coats it after a while, and when the computer raises the exhaust temperature at regen it becomes possible to convert the soot into carbon dioxide.

I have a C5 whose exhaust pipe is so clean rubbing your finger in it shows no dirt at all. It looks new inside.

Another of your codes is odd - 1693 is a fault in the DAMP system - Démarrage et Arrêt Moteur Piloté. C5s don't have stop/start.
 
CJR1983 said:
Do you know if I can, and then how, if I even should, remove this metal 'bar/brace/support' so I can easily access the back 3 injectors.
Photo coming
Click to expand...
I've only had a 407 for a few weeks, but that "bar" looks like something to do with forced induction air (turbo) gets very hot!

If you need to take it off to reach where you need to be, check out the joints before you do to make sure you don't need exhaust flange glue/cement to reseal, or gasket.
Without having done it myself on this creature, I couldn't say. It's raining so I won't go and look now either!

If your front injectors were carboned up, and you've got DPF issues, I wouldn't want you to look into your intake system, you'd be shocked with how filthy it probably is.
Then there's the rest of the exhaust before the dpf, turbo vanes etc
(these are dual turbos aren't they, haven't looked for them yet)

As for cleaning the dpf, reverse flush with warm/hot soapy water (use cheap dishwashing liquid, less stuff left on surface ) or an industrial ultrasonic parts cleaner (must be intake side down/exhaust side up) I've got one in a box, somewhere, not seen for years.

I guess the rear glow plugs are hard to get to?
 
seasink said:
I have no idea why all injectors should be open circuit on their command line. It might be spurious, to be looked at after the major problem is fixed.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.
Electronics aside, diesels need good airflow, which by all accounts, you don't seem to have.
Throw in the electronics, and I expect the injectors are trying to compensate for problems elsewhere.
 
407HDI2.7 said:
As for cleaning the dpf, reverse flush with warm/hot soapy water
Click to expand...
If you do this, remove off the car first! ... remove any electronics/sensors, block sensor hole etc
(I usually clean electronic sensors with electrical contact cleaner spray/solvent, gentle cloth wipe maybe. No cloth on air flow resistors though.)
 
Thankyou everyone for the help.
5 of the 6 fuel injectors are off and sitting in degreaser overnight.
To remove the 6th, I have to remove that 'metal bar' which I do think is now not a metal bar but something to do with airflow or the turbo, as stated by Mr Southern Highlands. Yes, feels immoveable and I'm not going to touch that.
I have order new deals for the injectors, so once that arrives I will put the injectors in.
I think it would be a good idea to remove the dpf to inspect and clean.
Has anyone done this.

Has anyone also remove the inlet manifold and cleaned.
Is this a big job.

Regards
 
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